This is a great analysis! Thank you! And to make the “heft” argument for printed books even more tangible, 240 pages equals 15 “signatures” of 16 pages each (sections printed and cut in a specific manner at the book factory). All bound books have to exist within those parameters of signatures, so they won’t be printing a 220 page book with 20 blank pages even if the book could’ve ended on page 220! That’s why every picture book is 32 pages (two signatures), thus a standard imposed by the printing process and now part of buyer’s expectation. I love this conversation and the possibilities for new approaches to publishing!
Love this: 'I’d pay more for four hours of time back with people I cannot get enough of than I’d ever pay for additional words on the page of an idea-driven book that could’ve made it’s point in half the words, and time.' I think that these things must be said. As time passes I have two beliefs that keep repeating in my head: 1. Too often systems work agsinst our wellbeing ang joy. 2. The things that truly serve us are sumple. They can be summed up in a page or two (or maybe even a couple of lines). Thank you Jonathan. Love receiving you in my inbox. Can I dm you? I would like to ask you something. Sending love.
Things are out of hand. May we find our way back with just a handful of simplicity. I wrote an email to you on June 17th. I know you are busy. So letting you know in case you find the time. Love to you. And thank you. xo
I love you two beliefs/conclusions you distilled. 1. Too often systems work against our wellbeing ang joy. 2. The things that truly serve us are simple Very much agree with these 2 points. You nailed it.
It is always so pleasing to see these type of things clearly with another human. I was just about to write this as a Note, but I will share it with you first. I was thinking that when we feel like we are losing our faith in humanity, when we see humans acting in inhumane ways, maybe we should consider the ‘environment’ we are all being exposed to. Maybe humans were more human years ago because everything used to be more suitable for maintaining our human nature. Life was always imperfect and will always be imperfect. But the loss of time and mental sanity, the loss of values. It takes so much work to be human right now. I believe it will get harder and harder. Maybe it isn't ‘us’. Maybe it is the system. Not maybe.
This does not mean we shouldn’t put all of our effort into it. But maybe we can be more compassionate and devote ourselves to holding onto the faith. There really is no other human choice. Sending love to you.
"Maybe it isn't ‘us’. Maybe it is the system." I think it is both, they both feed each other. We created the system by wanting to improve, invent, better, faster, make-life-easier systems. Then we get screwed by those very systems because we get all into it, fall for it, are hyped. Until we feel empty, sucked out, annoyed and wondering where on the way we lost ourselves. We lose our values, our sense of what matters. Indeed, it takes A LOT of work to be human again these days. And some don’t even “get it” what they lost or why they feel unsatisfied or unfulfilled.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. YESS, write a Note about it!!!!!
I am reminded of "The Yuppie Handbook" - 125 pages, sitting at the check-out counter - bought by millions just for a quick laugh. Remember that? I'm all in for shorter more concise self-help. And as if it's possible to ignore - AI self-help is all about the summary and the publishing industry has to compete with that. In my opinion, you are right-on in questioning the long-standing format...
Such an interesting point, Ruth. I think many people are now using AI to tell summarize the salient points from popular advice books, so they can just get to the doing part.
Super interesting — I love the honesty (honesty always makes me feel less alone, even if I’m not a writer!).
Also funny that “heft” is such a factor when I buy 99% of my books in e-form (Kindle, audible, etc) and never even glance at the page count since “pages” would depend on your font-size settings 😅
But maybe what most resonates was your point that just a single line can change your entire life. Isn’t that, in all its simple truth, why we keep reading?
A single line can, indeed, change a life, or at least a moment or season or day, Leah. Love the observation about heft and digital, too. Interestingly, the concept extends to audiobooks, too. Especially with audible dominating the market, and most people paying in credits, rather than money. As a general rule, the audiobook needs to be at least 5-6 hours long in order to meet the digital equivalent of heft and motivate someone to spend one of their credits on it. So, publishers don't like to produce shorter books. And, I'd bet many folks do look at page count when buying ebooks too.
Austin Kleon’s books are a perfect example of how this could work: memorable and life-changing message delivered in a shorter word count, but added value in good design plus higher quality printing, paper and production.
When interviewing potential clients who want my help writing their non-fiction books, one of the questions I ask them is: Does this need to be a book?
Often I have the sense everything would be much easier for them if they explored a different format for their ideas.
But often writing a book is an important life milestone for them. Books matter to them. It has to be a book.
I love exploring different ways books can be made. I love tiny books such as Start Here Now (Susan Piver) or You are Here *For Now (Adam J Kurtz).
I celebrate different formats, and am glad you are looking at the assumptions we make about what a book needs to be. Also excited to hear you are noodging yourself back into book-making territory!
Love that question, Cynthia. And so agree that the process of writing what needs to be written can be such a powerful experience for the person behind the words.
Also this can point us toward indie publishing, where we can make all the decisions for ourselves. My recent book (about writing a book!) has zero stories or case studies. It's an action-oriented book. I want readers to put it down after reading a short chapter and get to writing, not be lulled into reverie contemplating stories of how other people have written.
That's inspiring. It means I could probably publish my book already. An editor told me I needed more case studies and stories, and then I never finished. :(
Thank you for spending the time to write this! I'm currently reading Robert Macfarlane's book "Is a River Alive" and I don't want it to end. But so many other non-fiction books, especially in business or self-help? I go find their 18 minute TED talk and I'm good. Or maybe find their 1.5 hour podcast episode w/ Rich Roll or any other podcaster famous on the author-interviewing circuit and hear all the wisdom I need. I've pretty much stopped buying those books because they end up in a pile in my office, sitting their accusingly unread until I sell them back to Thriftbooks for pennies on the dollar.
Yep, I think this is increasingly the truth, Angie. Same impulse for me, and part of my job is to read those very books. So, it's an interesting place to be in.
I think that's the reason why I'm drawn here, to substack. If I'm in a notes mood I'll scroll through the notes if I'm in a reading mood I'll scroll through some of the articles. And if I get into an article and I get bored halfway through guess what I close it and walk away. But there's a little bit of everything here.
It's nice to get your take on the subject though where you've been on both ends of it as a professional writer for those of us who are still trying to figure out what we're writing and why and how we're going to share it.
Interesting observation, Heather. I've actually found myself increasingly getting lost in Notes, and reading far fewer longform essays here. Not a shift I feel great about, tbh. So, I'm trying to pay more attention to the fuller works. But, like you, if it doesn't hold me, I still tap out pretty early.
It's what happens when making money eclipses the craft of writing. Setting that aside however, the explosion of self-help books that say nothing new and should have been a tenet growing up is depressing.
It's a great question. And I don't think it has to be a pitted battle. Many in traditional publishing really do care about creating great work, and make great books. It's just that they're still operating within the context of a larger model that, in order to survive, needs to make decisions that are based on both the quality of the book, and the economic viability of the publisher.
Awesome insight and POV. I'm thinking there is a market for a new kind of publisher, one that helps people 'self-publish'. They just do all the pretty easy stuff (for some people) that gets the book published on Amazon. It removes the admin stuff a writer may not be interested in. Sure, you couldn't charge much, but it would be something. And if you got real good at it, you could produce a lot of people's books. Just an idea. I'm sure people are already doing it.
Definitely is a market for that, Rex. And there are a number of great players who've arrived to fill the gap over the decade or so. Outlets like Page Two or Ideapress. It's a brave new world.
As an avid reader and writer, and working on my next nonfiction project, I appreciated your insights, especially “it’s about getting clear on who and what a book is for”. I’ve been ‘stuck’ at 18k words on that project, but perhaps that’s because I’ve said everything I need to say.
I used to interview authors for a radio show about career development and as such got a copy of their books to read before we chatted. Most of my guests were fantastic; most of the books could've been a fraction of the heft for the same wisdom -- as you suggest. And if I posed a question clearly inspired by something on page, say, 188? Such delight from the author/guest! Apparently few people got that far :)
Form is endlessly fascinating. I'm a fan of the essay-as-hardcover. Think A Short Guide to a Happy Life by Anna Quindlen. It carries more weight (so to speak) than a magazine piece. As for length, if someone is proposing something simple, would you trust an explanation that's complicated?
I've had the same experience, myself, Maureen. And, also been on the other side of it. I get both "use cases," and love the options becoming more available to make the book what it simply needs to be.
I'm currently crafting the structure of my first book, sketching out each of the chapters, so I am very interested to read this. Listening to two author acquaintances discussing their publishers recently, I have to admit to being daunted by the publishing (and promo!) bit...
Excited for you, Alison. Nearly every book I've written has had a substantial change in structure through the process of writing. It's good to think about it in advance, but also hold the structure loosely and, once you're writing, let that experience tell you what it actually needs to be.
Bravo! I appreciate the idea of spending 4 less hours to read a book and gaining that time for something else. I work hard at being flexible. I want authors to get more of the profits. I support you!
This is a great analysis! Thank you! And to make the “heft” argument for printed books even more tangible, 240 pages equals 15 “signatures” of 16 pages each (sections printed and cut in a specific manner at the book factory). All bound books have to exist within those parameters of signatures, so they won’t be printing a 220 page book with 20 blank pages even if the book could’ve ended on page 220! That’s why every picture book is 32 pages (two signatures), thus a standard imposed by the printing process and now part of buyer’s expectation. I love this conversation and the possibilities for new approaches to publishing!
Love this added context, Heather. There are also simple, production realities when printing physical books that come into play.
This is so interesting!
Wow! Thanks for sharing this insightful detail.
Love this: 'I’d pay more for four hours of time back with people I cannot get enough of than I’d ever pay for additional words on the page of an idea-driven book that could’ve made it’s point in half the words, and time.' I think that these things must be said. As time passes I have two beliefs that keep repeating in my head: 1. Too often systems work agsinst our wellbeing ang joy. 2. The things that truly serve us are sumple. They can be summed up in a page or two (or maybe even a couple of lines). Thank you Jonathan. Love receiving you in my inbox. Can I dm you? I would like to ask you something. Sending love.
"The things that serve us are simple" - coming to this, more and more, myself, Danni.
Things are out of hand. May we find our way back with just a handful of simplicity. I wrote an email to you on June 17th. I know you are busy. So letting you know in case you find the time. Love to you. And thank you. xo
I love you two beliefs/conclusions you distilled. 1. Too often systems work against our wellbeing ang joy. 2. The things that truly serve us are simple Very much agree with these 2 points. You nailed it.
It is always so pleasing to see these type of things clearly with another human. I was just about to write this as a Note, but I will share it with you first. I was thinking that when we feel like we are losing our faith in humanity, when we see humans acting in inhumane ways, maybe we should consider the ‘environment’ we are all being exposed to. Maybe humans were more human years ago because everything used to be more suitable for maintaining our human nature. Life was always imperfect and will always be imperfect. But the loss of time and mental sanity, the loss of values. It takes so much work to be human right now. I believe it will get harder and harder. Maybe it isn't ‘us’. Maybe it is the system. Not maybe.
This does not mean we shouldn’t put all of our effort into it. But maybe we can be more compassionate and devote ourselves to holding onto the faith. There really is no other human choice. Sending love to you.
"Maybe it isn't ‘us’. Maybe it is the system." I think it is both, they both feed each other. We created the system by wanting to improve, invent, better, faster, make-life-easier systems. Then we get screwed by those very systems because we get all into it, fall for it, are hyped. Until we feel empty, sucked out, annoyed and wondering where on the way we lost ourselves. We lose our values, our sense of what matters. Indeed, it takes A LOT of work to be human again these days. And some don’t even “get it” what they lost or why they feel unsatisfied or unfulfilled.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. YESS, write a Note about it!!!!!
I am reminded of "The Yuppie Handbook" - 125 pages, sitting at the check-out counter - bought by millions just for a quick laugh. Remember that? I'm all in for shorter more concise self-help. And as if it's possible to ignore - AI self-help is all about the summary and the publishing industry has to compete with that. In my opinion, you are right-on in questioning the long-standing format...
Such an interesting point, Ruth. I think many people are now using AI to tell summarize the salient points from popular advice books, so they can just get to the doing part.
Super interesting — I love the honesty (honesty always makes me feel less alone, even if I’m not a writer!).
Also funny that “heft” is such a factor when I buy 99% of my books in e-form (Kindle, audible, etc) and never even glance at the page count since “pages” would depend on your font-size settings 😅
But maybe what most resonates was your point that just a single line can change your entire life. Isn’t that, in all its simple truth, why we keep reading?
A single line can, indeed, change a life, or at least a moment or season or day, Leah. Love the observation about heft and digital, too. Interestingly, the concept extends to audiobooks, too. Especially with audible dominating the market, and most people paying in credits, rather than money. As a general rule, the audiobook needs to be at least 5-6 hours long in order to meet the digital equivalent of heft and motivate someone to spend one of their credits on it. So, publishers don't like to produce shorter books. And, I'd bet many folks do look at page count when buying ebooks too.
Austin Kleon’s books are a perfect example of how this could work: memorable and life-changing message delivered in a shorter word count, but added value in good design plus higher quality printing, paper and production.
Yeah, he does a great job with his format, Jen.
When interviewing potential clients who want my help writing their non-fiction books, one of the questions I ask them is: Does this need to be a book?
Often I have the sense everything would be much easier for them if they explored a different format for their ideas.
But often writing a book is an important life milestone for them. Books matter to them. It has to be a book.
I love exploring different ways books can be made. I love tiny books such as Start Here Now (Susan Piver) or You are Here *For Now (Adam J Kurtz).
I celebrate different formats, and am glad you are looking at the assumptions we make about what a book needs to be. Also excited to hear you are noodging yourself back into book-making territory!
Love that question, Cynthia. And so agree that the process of writing what needs to be written can be such a powerful experience for the person behind the words.
Also this can point us toward indie publishing, where we can make all the decisions for ourselves. My recent book (about writing a book!) has zero stories or case studies. It's an action-oriented book. I want readers to put it down after reading a short chapter and get to writing, not be lulled into reverie contemplating stories of how other people have written.
That's inspiring. It means I could probably publish my book already. An editor told me I needed more case studies and stories, and then I never finished. :(
Do it, Rex. Don’t let someone with little imagination stop you from publishing your book.
I published my second book at around 35k words. People love it because that’s what it called for and they can finish it.
I really think the authors need to experiment more. All my author friends are scared to leave the traditional ecosystem after doing it once.
Love this, Paul. And, really appreciate how intentional you've been about your publishing journey from the get-go.
Thank you for spending the time to write this! I'm currently reading Robert Macfarlane's book "Is a River Alive" and I don't want it to end. But so many other non-fiction books, especially in business or self-help? I go find their 18 minute TED talk and I'm good. Or maybe find their 1.5 hour podcast episode w/ Rich Roll or any other podcaster famous on the author-interviewing circuit and hear all the wisdom I need. I've pretty much stopped buying those books because they end up in a pile in my office, sitting their accusingly unread until I sell them back to Thriftbooks for pennies on the dollar.
Yep, I think this is increasingly the truth, Angie. Same impulse for me, and part of my job is to read those very books. So, it's an interesting place to be in.
I think that's the reason why I'm drawn here, to substack. If I'm in a notes mood I'll scroll through the notes if I'm in a reading mood I'll scroll through some of the articles. And if I get into an article and I get bored halfway through guess what I close it and walk away. But there's a little bit of everything here.
It's nice to get your take on the subject though where you've been on both ends of it as a professional writer for those of us who are still trying to figure out what we're writing and why and how we're going to share it.
Interesting observation, Heather. I've actually found myself increasingly getting lost in Notes, and reading far fewer longform essays here. Not a shift I feel great about, tbh. So, I'm trying to pay more attention to the fuller works. But, like you, if it doesn't hold me, I still tap out pretty early.
It's what happens when making money eclipses the craft of writing. Setting that aside however, the explosion of self-help books that say nothing new and should have been a tenet growing up is depressing.
It's a great question. And I don't think it has to be a pitted battle. Many in traditional publishing really do care about creating great work, and make great books. It's just that they're still operating within the context of a larger model that, in order to survive, needs to make decisions that are based on both the quality of the book, and the economic viability of the publisher.
Awesome insight and POV. I'm thinking there is a market for a new kind of publisher, one that helps people 'self-publish'. They just do all the pretty easy stuff (for some people) that gets the book published on Amazon. It removes the admin stuff a writer may not be interested in. Sure, you couldn't charge much, but it would be something. And if you got real good at it, you could produce a lot of people's books. Just an idea. I'm sure people are already doing it.
Definitely is a market for that, Rex. And there are a number of great players who've arrived to fill the gap over the decade or so. Outlets like Page Two or Ideapress. It's a brave new world.
As an avid reader and writer, and working on my next nonfiction project, I appreciated your insights, especially “it’s about getting clear on who and what a book is for”. I’ve been ‘stuck’ at 18k words on that project, but perhaps that’s because I’ve said everything I need to say.
Perhaps, indeed, Rowena. It may just be saying, "yep, this is what it needs."
I used to interview authors for a radio show about career development and as such got a copy of their books to read before we chatted. Most of my guests were fantastic; most of the books could've been a fraction of the heft for the same wisdom -- as you suggest. And if I posed a question clearly inspired by something on page, say, 188? Such delight from the author/guest! Apparently few people got that far :)
Form is endlessly fascinating. I'm a fan of the essay-as-hardcover. Think A Short Guide to a Happy Life by Anna Quindlen. It carries more weight (so to speak) than a magazine piece. As for length, if someone is proposing something simple, would you trust an explanation that's complicated?
I've had the same experience, myself, Maureen. And, also been on the other side of it. I get both "use cases," and love the options becoming more available to make the book what it simply needs to be.
I'm currently crafting the structure of my first book, sketching out each of the chapters, so I am very interested to read this. Listening to two author acquaintances discussing their publishers recently, I have to admit to being daunted by the publishing (and promo!) bit...
Excited for you, Alison. Nearly every book I've written has had a substantial change in structure through the process of writing. It's good to think about it in advance, but also hold the structure loosely and, once you're writing, let that experience tell you what it actually needs to be.
Thank you so much for the encouragement. I've been surprised by how many shifts there have been already. I have to say that I'm loving it!
Bravo! I appreciate the idea of spending 4 less hours to read a book and gaining that time for something else. I work hard at being flexible. I want authors to get more of the profits. I support you!
Thanks, Dawna. It's all about finding the sweet spot where everyone gets what they want and need.
This has been something I've thought about for years. Thank you for stating what I've been afraid to say!
Glad it helped, Laura.